Engineer Memoirs
beaten down so hard by the end that you're glad to sign anything and think it's a
victory.
A:
That depends on whether you're tough-minded or not. But the problem for the U.S.
executive is that there are so many supporters of Israel in the U.S. Congress and the
Jewish vote is such an important factor politically in America that there are limits to
what any President can do in being tough with Israel. The domestic political dimensions
enter in. There is no question that's an important factor in Israel's approach to the
problem.
Q:
You said that you had no expectation of such a strong program role by the Israelis,
even in March of '79. Yet very soon after that, they set up a pretty large and strong
program management organization. How did that happen?
A:
It was their country. I knew they were going to have a project manager. I don't
remember that his role was particularly spelled out in this agreement. There were
references to the Ministry of Defense and to their representatives. Only one project
manager was mentioned in the agreement. That was the U.S. project manager. Then
there was the Ministry of Defense representative. That was the Israeli name used. Then
there was a construction agent mentioned. So if you look at the agreement, you have
the three basic parties--the project manager--
Q:
That's General Hartung?
A:
That's General Hartung. The construction agent--that's the Corps of Engineers. And
the Israeli Ministry of Defense. There was no mention that they would have a project
manager. That was their choice. I think the change reflects the dynamic personality of
Moshe Bar-Tov who came in, was given this job, and started building his empire.
Q:
What do you think of how the Department of Defense organized internally to execute
this program--the arrangements between the Corps and the U.S. Air Force?
A:
That wasn't handled too well. But it wasn't disastrous. [Major General William D.] Bill
Gilbert of the Air Force, [Major General William R.] Bill Wray for the Corps, and I
worked on this problem. Jack Morris was a player as well.
The other two people that were involved in this were [Antonia Handler] Toni Chayes
and Dave McGiffert. When we started, Toni Chayes was the Air Force Assistant
Secretary for Installations. I don't remember that Bill Gilbert particularly involved her
at first, but she, of course, was very interested in things of this type. She was very
interested in the situation with Israel. She's a very capable attorney.
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