Engineer Memoirs _____________________________________________________________________
time. He understood those things and jumped on the problem, and so I saw things getting
better even as we watched. So, I'm just trying to frankly answer your question, which was,
how did I see them when I arrived. I saw them not yet fully there, a situation recognized by
their leadership who had set up these recruiting teams. USACE had agreed to more personnel
spaces, and so the build-up was still happening when I arrived. When I left, it wasn't well but
I saw things happening that made it look like the fixes were coming and in place. The right
people, like Joe, were there to put things together and make it happen. When I returned in
'87, eight years later, there was an obvious improvement in capability.
Part of the problem of the long-range security program, too, was the right kind of people. I
mean, not just people who could do the technical engineering, but people who could work
with the user. I'm speaking of the philosophy of working with the user and getting him to
work out solutions. If he doesn't, go back to him and push him into working with you rather
than let him say something, you go back and fuss with it a long time and come back with
something, and then he beats you over the head because you'd taken so long and he still
doesn't like it even though he'd never helped contribute to the solution.
So, that organizational maturity had happened by '87; they were a growing organization in
'79. I'm sure that it had happened by some intervening time, probably closer to '79 than '87.
Q:
You mentioned Joe Higgs. Had you worked with him before or known him?
A:
Never had.
Q:
Just the way you said it, it was like maybe you had experience with him. You're saying he
came and then afterwards you saw what happened.
A:
Yes. He came and I saw what happened. Then when I came back here, I really found out
about his reputation and that sort of thing. He was just Joe Higgs to me, senior Corps kind of
person, when he came over.
Q:
Yes.
A:
He's the kind of person who deals straight up. I mean, you sit with him and immediately he
conveys to you, "I'm here to solve the problem; let's work it out." And, "Yes, that's my
responsibility; I'll take care of it; I need this from you." I mean, you could immediately work
with him on a straightaway basis. John Blake's the same kind of person. He might have been
there in '79--I don't remember when he came in to be Chief of Construction.
Q:
A little later, I think.
A:
Again, in '79, execution was in the ISAE part of the organization. I wouldn't deal with the
construction side of the house. I was dealing with getting the projects from program into
design so we could have something to construct.
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