Engineer Memoirs
However, as far as I was concerned, it was fine to have an AFRCE-type organization,
headed by Paul Hartung, which would be the group to receive the requirements from
Israel and to negotiate with Israel on these things. Then, when they got the requirement
nailed down, to turn this requirement over to the Corps of Engineers to build the
project. That was all right with me.
But when it came to thinking that the Air Force role should be expanded and that they
should have the same kind of voice in this project that they had for a project built for
the U.S. Air Force, this didn't make any sense at all, as far as I was concerned.
Therefore, I didn't want to aid and abet this interpretation of the relationship. That's
the reason why, I guess you could say, I didn't support the concept of Hartung's being
a program or project manager in the traditional sense.
I didn't have any trouble with his being named to the program or project manager, as
far as the relations with Israel were concerned. He was that, in that agreement. But as
far as having that similar role, relative to the Corps of Engineers, no, I didn't agree with
that.
I think we should put at the beginning of this interview or early on the fact that I found
Toni Chayes to be a very bright, versatile person, and a charming lady. And I really
enjoyed my association with her. She was a tough adversary, but we just didn't agree
on some fundamental points about this whole arrangement.
Q:
I must say you have a more balanced view of her than some of the Corps people I've
talked with. She apparently really caused some rage and frustration in the Corps of
Engineers.
A:
That may be. But I was older than they, and I had spent more time up at OSD than
they. And they were closer to the nitty-gritty, so it was perhaps more painful for them,
easier for me to stand back from this.
Of course, the whole business of this audit that she caused was, in my opinion, a
mistake. But once it was started, it couldn't be turned off. I felt to have an audit--here
you had a job that was only going to last about two years, really. To have an audit after
the thing had just barely begun wasn't the way to get results.
Q:
It was just a distraction.
A:
Yes, it was just a distraction. But it represented Toni's way of somehow intervening in
this since she was frustrated from intervening through any management channels.
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