Ernest Graves
A:
That's the difference I see there.
Q:
Is there something else I ought to ask you about that period between July of '77 and
February of '78?
A:
I don't believe so. I know that there was a lot of discussion about reorganizing the
Office of the Chief of Engineers and that the organization that Jack kept going over in
his mind is what now has ultimately come to pass.
Jack had this idea that civil works was very neat, that the Director of Civil Works was
responsible for everything regarding civil works; and that military programs were very
messy because there were all these different people. He wanted to have a Director of
Military Programs. I said, "This is what the Deputy Chief of Engineers is supposed to
do." It is messy. But the reason it's messy is that the Corps of Engineers' position in
the military construction business is quite different from its position in civil works."
In civil works, Congress has authorized this work, and it's all under the Chief. In
military construction, the Chief is a staff officer on the Army staff. He's all enmeshed
with this. So it's wrong to feel that you can make the two equally clean and clear cut.
While I was there, he was deterred. After I left, they went ahead and had a Director of
Military Programs. And then, of course, it's gone through several evolutions since then.
I'm not a great believer in reorganizations.
Q:
Why? Just because of the instability that they--
A:
I think if you put more energy into whatever the system is, it will produce more results.
During the time of reorganizations nobody gets anything done. I don't mean that there
aren't things that require change. But a lot of the reorganizations are just drilling back
and forth. I'd much rather get on with it.
Defense Security Assistance Agency, 19781981
Q:
What was March '78 like? What kind of a choice was that for you?
A:
Jack Morris was talking to them about various three-star jobs for me. He was very
supportive of my getting a third star.
I had known [Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs David
E.] Dave McGiffert quite well because he became Under Secretary of the Army when
I was exec to Stanley Resor. In fact, I used to joke that I went on Dave McGiffert's
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